Welcome to episode sixty-two of the Low Tide Boyz - A Swimrun Podcast!

We know that we always say that we’re always super stoked about our guests but it’s just true. This week is no exception. On the show this week we have Carl Eneroth, the filmmaker behind the forthcoming documentary All the Way: The Making of Swimrun Champions. This film chronicles the journey of George Bjälkemo and Pontus Lindberg as they prepare for the ÖTILLÖ World Championship. But this film is so much more than that, it’s really a window into the sport of Swimrun and why it’s awesome. 

The free online premiere of the film is scheduled for March 24th and we highly, highly encourage anyone who loves Swimrun to check it out. We also encourage anyone who loves someone who loves Swimrun to check it out as well.

More on this interview later in the show.

Shoutouts/Feats of Endurance

This week we’re doing a combo shoutout and awarding our friend, and the previous guest of the show way back on episode twenty-eight, Adam Skolnick. He completed David Goggins’s 4x4x48 over the weekend and did great! As big proponents of “unnecessary” feats of endurance, Adam really stepped out of his comfort zone, put himself out there, and got it done. Strong work brother!

We had a few other folks in our Strava club take on the challenge so congrats to Ben and Tony and anyone else that we might have missed.

Make sure to join us on Strava and cheer on your fellow Swimrunners as they train all over the world.

This Week in Swimrun (Powered by Raceid.com) 

We have a couple of updates to share this week.

ÖTILLÖ Swimrun announced some changes to their 2021 race schedule due to the ever-changing COVID situation. ÖTILLÖ Malta has been postponed to November 2021 and unfortunately, ÖTILLÖ Isles of Scilly has been postponed to 2022. 

The third edition of Swimrun del Bilancino is taking place on June 13 in Barberino di Mugello in the Tuscany region of Italy. The race offers two distances (SPRINT with 4km swim and 18km run and PROMO with 1.5km swim and 10km run) and did we mention that it’s in Tuscany! Thank you to race director Paul Bernier for bringing this race to our attention. (In case the name Mugello rings a bell to fans of F1, it’s the location of the circuit by the same name and the test track for Ferrari.)

In other race news, the Trans Cape Swimrun took place over the weekend in Western Australia. The race was completely sold out and photos on Instagram showed an epic day for racing with really cool terrain and, of course, a ton of smiling faces. 

That’s it for this week. Feel free to email us to tip us off to any events or Swimrun news that you’d like for us to share on the show.

This Week’s Interview

 is a saying that this week’s guest Carl Eneroth mentioned to us and we think that it perfectly embodies the spirit of Swimrun. It means “Team before self” and Carl found a way to capture that spirit in his film, All the Way: The Making of Swimrun Champions. In the film, Carl shows the magic of the sport in a way in a multi-layered way that we haven’t seen presented before. Following George and Pontus (two world-class humans, athletes, and previous guests on the show) as they train for the 2018 and 2019 ÖTILLÖ World Championship, the film interlaces interviews from previous winners and giants of the sport with race footage and successfully makes the case that Swimrun is a hero’s pursuit.

In this interview, we chatted with Carl about how he got into filmmaking and how he discovered Swimrun and what was the spark that led him to want to make a documentary about the sport. We discussed some of the central themes of the film including the magnetic Swimrun community, the joy of moving through nature, the insights into what it takes to Swimrun at a high level, and, of course, collectively agree that George and Pontus are awesome.

We encourage everyone to sign up on the film’s website to watch the free premiere on March 24th at 8PM CET (11AM Pacific.) If you haven’t already drank the Kool Aid on Swimrun before watching it, you’ll start drinking it during this film.

You can learn more about Carl and his film company, The Stockholm Social Innovation Lab on their website. 

That’s it for this week’s show. If you are enjoying the Löw Tide Böyz, please be sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast player and leave us a five-star review. You can find us on Apple Podcast, Spotify, and Google Podcast. You can also follow our meme page on Instagram. Email us at lowtideboyz@gmail.com with any feedback and/or suggestions. Finally, you can support us on Patreon…if you feel so inclined.

Interview Transcript 

Chris Douglas (CD) (00:00):

All right. Well, today we have the founder and CEO of Stockholm Social Innovation Lab, Carl Eneroth was also the filmmaker behind All the Way, a forthcoming movie about swimrun that we're all super excited about. Welcome to the show, Carl. 

Carl Eneroth (CE): Thank you. 

CD: So, so we've, we've been able to preview the movie, which makes us feel really special. We almost kind of feel like journalists, which is great Thank you for that. And we're going to talk a lot about the movie and spoiler alert. We both loved it, but before we get into that, we'd love to hear a little bit about your background as a filmmaker and kind of what got you interested in making a film about SwimRun.

CE (00:40):

Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to be in your show. And I've been listening to your other podcasts and am thrilled of course, by your enthusiasm for swim run. When my background, as a filmmaker, I've been doing this for five years, I'm a latecomer into this and with no formal education really within filmmaking. But I've been telling stories all my life and sort of re-writing fiction novels and other things working with distance education. So I'm into storytelling a lot, and I found this medium and so interesting. So I started to do documentary films. So why, why did I get into this making a film about swimrun? 

CE (01:38):

Well, I've always been interested in sports and particularly outdoor sports. And if I had to choose one, one sport that would be cross country skiing. And what I call the pinnacle of that thing is to go the Vas (Vasaloppet). I loved it every, every winter, the first of the first Sunday in March. And it was a 90-kilometer race. And I mean, in Sweden, there've been hundreds of thousands of people who have done it. So it's not that spectacular, but its part of the Swedish has the spirit to do that. So either you're doing it then blizzard or sun and it's freezing cold and everyone is sort of moaning about it. But when you get to the finish line, that's a big thing I've done. And several hundred thousand Swedes have done also. So you have these two options on the first Sunday in March, either you do the race and you're out during the blizzard or in the, on the sun and you struggle the whole day for it to get to the finish line or you sit in the, in the, in the sofa at home and you see the other people freeze if you don't do that here.

CE (02:34):

So it's, it's a good Sunday in either case, but I was always been sort of outdoor sports has always been my thing. And I stumbled across SwimRun back in 2010, 2011, perhaps with my colleague at that time, you are new loom who was he was really into swim run and that he was sort of extreme athlete. And I saw that that's not familiar, that's too difficult. But in 2018, I tried to do it on my own and did the race I've been following in Darla Ana. And I just saw it just sort of looked at the others and they had, I realized I had all the wrong equipment, but I wanted to do it anyway. And it was just a wonderful experience going out there in the woods. And there's a running trail that I wouldn't have found myself.

CE (03:28):

And then jumping into these small inner lakes with the sort of water lilies and the water was warm and all the the ladies just swam or past me. And I took a wrong turn at the end and ended up lost in that race. And that's not really how I see myself ending up lost, but I thought maybe I could do this better next time, but who should I, who should I learn from? And I just, I just left it there for, for a year or so, but then I stumbled upon my friend [inaudible] who I actually ended up doing this film with. And it turned out that he was training with these world champions George and Pontus. So I thought, well, maybe I could learn from them. And he said, yeah, come to a long way training every day, mostly. And so I picked it up and sort of joined their little group and they got very close, to these world champs. And then I thought, I must just hang in here and see, see what happens, but that's why, how I got into this.

Chipper Nicodemus (CN) (04:33):

Awesome. And I love the first time. And, and I, I distinctly remember Chris and I's first swim run experience as well. We had grand hopes of going out and practicing, you know, every weekend for months and months before swarm run. But here we were on race day at the start line. We hadn't quite done one yet. So we're standing there and we're looking around, we have all of our gear and we thought we did a pretty good job with the gear. And there we're looking at these people who are clearly, we're like, Oh, you're the definitely European. And like, well, they have so much different gear than we do. This is a little bit concerning. Have we missed something? Is that we miss the memo on this giant pool buoy, how to even buy one of these, you know, what's, what's going on here. So, but you, a little bit of for shadowing you, it sounds like you kind of had the swimrun flow on that first experience with, with kind of just the freedom of just being in nature and moving, moving throughout. And that's kinda what got you hooked. It sounds like.

CE (05:29):

Yeah. I mean, I think we all experienced that in the first, first experience not control. You can go wherever you want, and it's this childish that you do as a boy, just sort of go out there and Woodson runabout with no real purpose or just for the fun of moving. And now you go into the water and you scrambled along, tried to get everything in place and up again, and full of joy, just so fun, really. That is the feeling and you're sort of, you're sharing people all along and you're tagging and you're are pulling up people and they're pulling up you and you just sort of, there's a laughing thing about it, I guess which is it's a big loft, just that at least in the beginning, then it becomes a bit as really fun, really fun.

CD (06:22):

So, so Carl, so you're hanging out with George and Ponton, so we've had the pleasure of interviewing them and we think that they are just, you know, not just amazing athletes, but just really great people. And there, I mean, I can't think of anyone who loves swim, run more than they do and are better and Basadur for, for the sport than they are. Where w so, so you're hanging out with them, but, well, where did you get the ideas? Like, you know what, we could probably make a really amazing film that features the sports and sort of their journey. Where did that come up?

CE (06:54):

Well, when I do documentaries I usually go about it in the seminar way. First, it has to be a spark in myself, just not sort of intellectual ideas that this will probably be good, but I have to feel the passion as I have to carry it for many weeks and many months. So that, that's the first thing to have sort of the spark and get excited about it. But then it's also the access. I need to have access to these people in this case, Pontus and George, and then I need the middleman. Then this was a Ludovic then who could sort of vouch for me and sort of build bridge the trust that who is this guy, what will we do with the things? Because I mean, no contracts are given. It's just, it's not even a handshake. It's just sort of, okay, you're here.

CE (07:38):

Well, they won't, they won't. And so, so it's a part of respect. Then you have to be part of that community and that's a trust issue, and I need to, I need access. And I had that access with Ludvig. And then another thing is then the, so are these, the top guys in this, are these the culture bearers? Are they the best in the field life and what they're doing? And of course, there are many who are best in the field, but these are best in the field, in my, what I saw. And lastly, when most importantly is really good people, I want to hang out with I'm in other humble, grounded, nice people that are sort of not having an attitude or a, just being very friendly and open. And I mean, that's really what they are punters or drawers are really good folks, really good people. So I think that they fitted that with flying colors, all the criteria

CN (08:35):

They, they did, and they're excellent ambassadors. And I think what we've traits that kind of have reared up is this just being a genuinely, a good person? And it seems that everyone in the SwimRun community kind of has a similar vibe if you will. And that's what makes the community so well. And Carl, do you kind of think that's from?

CN (08:56):

Is that a tops down thing or is that just everyone doing it? Like at the pointy end with George and Pontus you know, the best, one of the best men's team, all the other men's teams mixed women's, whatever everyone's kind of that same way, really accessible, friendly, welcoming. And is that what is creating the SA the sort of the magic of swimrun that's helping it along?

CE (09:18):

Yeah, I think that's a very interesting question. I think it's, it's been a fairly small community, at least in the beginning before it sort of exploded in 2017, perhaps. So it was these crazy people who just enjoyed what you were enjoying also just to be out there in nature. And no one is sort of telling us what to do, but we're just exploring and trying to overcome the, the cold and the long and the long runs. And so it's, it's this community where it's like, Donielle Hanson. One of the top guys also said, it's, it's like the free fight of fitness. So there are very few rules and you have just them to conquer, not even conquered, that's the wrong word. You have to adopt a nature to really make that flow with you. So you have to adapt yourself. And in doing that, and if you talk to the top guys, it's really not about sort of battering.

CE (10:19):

And it's more of coming into the flow of nature and feeling that and adapting yourself, otherwise, you get hurt or otherwise, you won't last the whole thing. And if you, if you are in that place you are a humble person, although you have high ambition, there's the humbleness that you are part of, much greater thing, like nature that you cannot overcome, you have to be a part of it. So I think it sort of fosters all of them and well asked, included as we're, we're part of this to really be humbled to what nature gives us. And when we are humble, we also are filled with this energy that nature gives us. And that's just sort of, you can see it in the eyes, just the joy of it, just the joy of moving. Definitely when you're in connection with something greater.

CE (11:11):

Definitely also your question there. I think it's, it's everyone. And I would say it's not only the top people, but the is yours. They're good at sort of building a crowd around them. So help them motivate their training, which has a lot of training, but it also what they do is they have this group around them. So they carry the group with them in order to to get their energy also. And as you will see in the film, there's another by name Rosenbaum, who was, who invented actually the word SwimRun right back in 2012, she said, we're all pulling each other. And I think that's really nice at the nice metaphor they were pooling. All the race is pulling each other. You pull two and two, but you also pull the others to outperform themselves and sort of enduring when everything says you should stop, but the whole train is going. And that is also a movement, which is

CD (12:10):

Fantastic. I think there's, there's a, there's a third character in this film besides George and Pontus, and that's really the Stockholm Archipelago and to as sort of the race that is sort of, you know, in our mind, it's already mythologized, but I think this movie really mythologize is sort of the uniqueness of it. Can you talk a little bit about, I guess it makes sense that you would pick the world championship, but you know, did you reach out to Michael and MOTS and, and how did that work too, to, to make that race and the Swedish arc and the Stockholm archipelago kind of be also a character in the movie?

CE (12:51):

Hmm. That's a very good question. And of course, this would, wouldn't it, the film hadn't been possible without the res footage that Michael and Matt's provided and Rasmus Lodenius,  the photographer, the fantastic photographer, I must say, which, I mean, we, I think we all captivated by the rhythm and the movement and the sharpness of his images, and that really brings the pulse to it all. And of course, the archipelago is the third character where you sort of lose yourself in that environment, which is harsh, harsh, and demanding, but also embracing and generous in a way we are many people in play here. And this feeling of losing yourself in a bigger environment, this talk of occupy is also a very special place to be if you haven't visited yet. I mean, it's from the stone ages or more than that then  I mean the colors out on those rocks and it's a very beautiful place to be.

CN (13:59):

Yeah, it is. It's definitely a breathtaking visual spectacle throughout the movie as well. And, and seeing, and you really with, with the Otillo race footage, you really get a good sense of, of how difficult some of these sections are. It’s just, it's quite spectacular. And it really does. You can't force your way through nature. You have to work with it. And I think the footage that you used in the film really exemplified that.

CE (14:28):

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Rasmus, because he did that kind of footage

CN (14:35):

We had, we had him on as well. Great. So, so you're following George and Pontus around and all this training. And I think one thing that really as an amateur has a happy amateur swim runner or, you know, endurance athlete or however I want to frame myself. But I think what really was, was really fascinating to me is the level of detail that Georgia Pontus was going into a kind of find those little incremental improvements whether that was a special swim coach or a special run coach, that they would go out and do a mechanic focused Hill repeats with, or, or some track workouts, which one of this kind of incremental gain areas was something that you, as, as a quote-unquote, amateur endurance person was most surprising to you.

CE (15:31):

No, I think you've picked one with the three addicts psyllium here. They run a, they run, especially around specialists techniques, specialist. And I mean, one must assume that George, for example, and Pontus are really good runners, otherwise they wouldn't be at the top. They are, but they sort of start off with saying that, well, I look at you and there's so much to do. And just sort of embracing that to say, I've been doing this for 15 years at this level, I've sort of been running so many miles and still, I'm, I'm a learner. And he had to sort of improve this and this and this to, to gain that extra percentage. But if you add up all those percentages and that will make a difference in the end. So this is what I saw with this, with training and it's sort of small things. And although they have been doing this for so long, there are still things that could improve. And that's why they went to him also

CD (16:30):

Not to spoil it. There's one scene in the movie where George and Pontus finished a workout and they're, you know, you're interviewing them there by their car and then they're putting their towels over their seats before they sit into the car to drive home. And to me, that was one of the most relatable things in the world, because pretty much every workout that chipper and I do as partners, you know, we bring our own towels. So we don't, you know, stink up, whoever's driving his car. And to me that like that just, I mean, I, I already, I already thought before watching the film that Georgian Pontus are great people we've interviewed them and we really liked them. But to me that just like humanized them so much that, I mean, it just seemed to me, like everybody could relate to that. It's like, it doesn't matter how elite you are. You still want to put a towel over your seat so that it doesn't get, so you don't get sweaty on your buddy seat. Yeah. Amazing. Totally.

CE (17:21):

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're really nice people in that, in that sense also.

CD (17:26):

So, so let's talk a little bit about kind of like the mechanics of how this film was made specifically, so you pick this subject, you, you make this film, what were you really hoping that the film would do and what the audience would get out of it

CE (17:42):

Complex? Well, at least for me because it goes on many levels on one level, it's a race from a to B and just finish first and, and another level. It's also about them and their relationship between each other and their individual motivations of why they're doing this and how they're doing it. But it's also all the people around them which is referred to their wives or their friends, or, but also the other people, the other winners of this race, which they also have a relationship and need to, in a way on a racing day also relate to because they have, everyone has put down so many hours, so it's more than just a hobby it's them. So it's really very, very personal if they win it or don’t win it. I mean, for most of us, I was, I think that that was a big sort of defining an insight for most of us winning a race.

CE (18:44):

Well, it's good. Fun. And if you don't do it well, I had a bad day, but I mean, those who go to the very top, as you would know, really identify themselves, this is who they are. So it's more than just doing it. It's who they are under, they're living it. So then the sort of winning or not winning means so much more. And that that's an insight also. And so it's, it goes on on many levels and it also brings up another character which is the hero. You talked about the archipelago, but it's also another mythological character in this, which I sort of w what emerged during the work is the hero. So the theme of the film is actually to explore the hero in you. And the hero is the vast, a vast idea. It's a, I mean, you can do a heroic act by saving someone from a burning building if no one is doing it also because then the hero needs to be sort of separated from the others.

CE (19:50):

Or you can look at the hero's journey where you sort of get a spark of inspiration, and then you have to overcome your doubts and then move out and then challenge your fears and sort of getting to another place. But I think this is more about the hero’s characteristics, and that is more accessible to all of us. That, I mean, in the trailer, it says that we have seem to have lost them. We are not the heroes in our own stories. And I think that sport fill that empty space where we can actually be heroes in our own stories, although it won't help anyone else but ourselves, but it helps us to, to gain access to that superpower we have within ourselves when the conditions are right. And that opens up in third to that is not just an individual who is doing this, which is very common, that it's just one person with sort of superpowers, but exploring that hero, you need to see also the context in which this person exists or acts.

CE (20:58):

And that sort of turns back to the beginning of what I was saying, that it's multifaceted, it's them, it's them with themselves, them against each other against the competitors. It's also the context they're in and the history and how they define themselves, but learning and being more aware of that will also help people. I hope to explore the hero in themselves in everyday life without doing sort of fantastic deeds like Gandhi or Nelson Mandela, but what can I do and how can I improve what I do at to be the hero in my life. And I think that was very very interesting and interesting for me also to explore what that hero could be.

CD (21:44):

Oh, definitely. Now. I mean, that's, that's, that's really cool because I think when you watch the film again, thank you so much for letting us preview it. One of the things you really get out of it is kind of this idea that you know, a lot of the limits that are in front of you, aren't real. Whether it's a body of water that you can just swim across, if you're swimrunning, or just what you think you, your personal limitations are. And a lot of that stuff is, is mental or whatever. And the idea that you can be, you can do, you can make a heroic act at the moment while you're racing, whether it's supporting your partner or going a little bit harder or whatever it is. I think I think it's something that I had. I had never thought about it that way until I saw the movie. And it definitely made me love, swim, run even more than I already do, which is kinda hard to believe possible. But, but it seems like we're not the only ones that have, I mean, who are we? We're just a couple of guys, but this movie has been really well received at film festivals. Can you talk a little bit about you know, how that's been, it seems like, you know, it's been submitted to a bunch of film festivals is winning all these awards. What's that been like?

CE (22:54):

Yeah, that was surprising for me. Because I, I've always been focused, very focused on the live screenings and getting people to theaters and having people come and who share this interest and they get to meet each other, they get to meet the people who are in the film and that's really, is it a great experience, but now with the COVID pandemic, that's not possible. So we had one planned in November and that has to be canceled the whole week of screening. And but at that time I really needed to revision or re-imagine, how am I supposed to sort of move out with these images or this film? So I started to send out to one, I started with this all the way and to my surprise, they got selected and then one sort of the best price. And then I sent another one and it wasn't there also. And now we're up to sort of 10 official selections and four Oh four winds in various countries, sort of New York and Atlanta, Georgia, and I'm in London and all the kinds of things.

CN (24:03):

Well, congratulations, Carl, that's a massive accomplishment in and of itself. It's also more exciting because you are amplifying the thing that, that we all love so much. And so, so thanks for that. And then putting, putting it all out there. We, I don't, I don't know if they're going to let people like me and Chris vote and these types of things, but, you know, we would vote for you. I'm pretty sure we'd have to, at this point, we have to be a sag member or something we'll apply for a card.

CE (24:34):

No, I mean, the film festival is there are many film festivals. I'm probably the most, most of them you have never heard of. And but there are professional guys on the other side and they're selecting and see, I mean, from their side, if there are the 10 boys, right. And the drama is working, or the conflict is there and the ones I'm in a number of criteria, but it does help to get the spread the word, I would say, sorry. Yes.

CN (25:02):

I think your subjects, George and Pontus had naturally some great story arcs over the years that you kind of unfolded or boy loses girl then gets girl back kind of situation. You know, we kinda know what we're talking about here with the Attila world championship and boy being Georgia Pontus. So we have some kind of flow throughout the movie, which, which was really awesome too, to kind of see that naturally happen. And one thing that really draws Chris and I, to swimruun is, is kind of the magic of, of the partnership of doing this event. So closely sank up with some other human that it just kind of is on this whole another level. And I think you really showcase that excellently in, in, in, in your film, is that some, how did you kind of approach showcasing the the uniqueness that swarm run has of, of the partnership? Yeah. And just like a little corollary question to that. Do you think that helped in the film festivals, like capturing that sort of, that relationship between, between George and Pontus?

CE (26:15):

Yeah. And on the last question, I'm not really sure what, what captured them? I mean, I have, I've sent in another, another my other films also, but they are usually the sort of, I wouldn't say that, but they get selected and maybe they went and don't win, but this one is either you win it or you don't. So it's sort of either, or so the people who are watching it are not into sports or they're very much into sports. So, but I think it has it has a dimension. And what I really wanted to show is that it's not, it's not about an individual or sort of these, a pair of individuals it's much greater than that because it's in order to compete at this level, you cannot just have your ego and just want to win. You have to really let that go and absorb and be a part of a much greater force if you like.

CE (27:12):

And that is also in between them. And as they always, they come back to, they don't, they don't say anything during those eight hours, they're out there because they know exactly where the other people, while they're where they are, where they are in terms of how much energy they have and if their body's working or not working. So just by looking at them, they could see exactly because they have been training for so long, under so many hours and that special bond that they build, which is duplicated themselves in a way but also makes them totally dependent on each other. So if one is strong and as I can do this, I can sort of win this thing. And the other person for some reason is not there. Well, then you're in trouble. And so they're really dependent on each other for good and for worse.

CE (28:06):

And that is a bond I think many are sort of searching for in a way, but maybe don't want to put themselves on the line and risk everything. I mean, they've been training so long, they'd been training a year for this, and suddenly the other person sort of have a bad day or twist an ankle. And so what, what can you do? I mean, if you're alone, you could then just hammer on, but now you're dependent on someone else and that brings a whole, whole other dimension. And if you see them walk, I mean, just point us and George, you can see they're actually running in tandem all the time, or there are different people, but when they go into race mode that just become a pair, which is almost like one person, but it's not. Yeah. So that's a really interesting dynamic in that. And I three, I really think they're supporting each other with that. Then they're so confident that the other person is really giving everything. He has everything.

CD (29:09):

Yeah. You know when in our, in our own sort of amateur, you know, back of the pack races, Chipper and I do, you know, we really feel like, you know, our role, whether it's spoken or unspoken is to try to bring the best out of the other person out of your partner. And whether that means pushing them, making sure they're eating, taking nutrition or whatever, or, or, you know, cheering them up if they're having a low point. Yeah, it really is. The more in tune you are with your partner, the better the experience you have, and obviously, you know, you can do better race faster or whatever it is, but, but it becomes you know, the flow of being, being in that space, I think is enhanced where yeah, they really don't have to communicate that much because you're tethered together.

CD (29:54):

You have your toll line and you kind of can feel that. Yeah, but I think, I think that the movie does a really good job and not just with Georgian, Pontus, I mean, you interview a bunch of people. You mentioned you, you interview Erica, you interview Anna Erickson as well, as well as Daniel and Kristin Larsen. And, and these are pros you know, and as well as previous winners. And it's really interesting, like, it seems to me, one of the themes that come through was sort of accepting the difficulty and you really only feel the joy of achievement by having it be really difficult. Was that, is that, is that a finding that surprised you or, or, or while you were making the movie, is that something that seemed like, Oh yeah. Well, that seems obvious that these people would identify with pain.

CE (30:42):

No, I mean, nothing is, nothing is obvious well at this familiar, or if it's obvious, then it's really, it can be challenged, can be challenged as well. Well, pain is one thing, but I remember it sort of a pivot moment with Paul Crosstrek and the acid of com cam came at him the usual way, like the amateur do's, how does, how does it feel? How, how can you do this? And how can you really put yourself into this hardship and why do you do it? And he just looked at me and he said, well if you can't if you don't understand it, if you can't see what I'm doing, I can't explain it to you. You must feel it yourself. You must feel this urge. Otherwise, I cannot explain it. And then you, of course, you could explain different things, but I think you have to share this, this attitude of really wanting to go to your own limits and then pass them. And that's for fun, but it's also, that's where you feel most alive. I mean, everyday life is nothing compared to that peak experience, which is really hard and really a lot of pain, but the joy on the other side of that, or in that moment where you feel so much alive, because you feel your whole body and nothing is working, and here's where you're struggling with everything that is an intense experience of being alive. I wouldn't do it, but they do it. And that was thrilling. That was really,

CD (32:14):

I think it goes back you know, it's, it's, it's heroic and it's in its way, as you were talking about earlier, you know, I'm sure everyone’s going to ask us, so we should just tell them, you know, how they can see the movie, once it coming out. Can you give us any details on when it's going to be released and how people can view it?

CE (32:34):

The online premiere is on March 24th, at 8:00 PM stock on time, which is plus one hour then from London. And there will be a landing site, but all, all is accessible via my own this homepage is at alltheway.se. And there's a link to register for the online event, which is free, of course. And if you want to donate to Archipelago Foundation that is most of the outcome, but you don't have to, but after that, the online premiere, it will then be available via Vimeo, but then you have to rent it. So go to March 24th, if you want to see it for free.

CD (33:22):

Yeah. We'll have all that stuff in the show notes. So you can go over and check that out, but w well-worth well-worth your, your hour and three minutes or whatever, o'clock center, 20 seconds. One hour. It's excellent along there. Sorry, Carl. Yeah,

CE (33:39):

No, no, no. To get it over a feature film, cause a feature film is one hour. So I had to get it over, feature him to compete in that.

CD (33:47):

Nice. So we, we can't encourage people enough to go see this you know we think, we think it's amazing. I think it showcases the sport of swarm run in a great way. In many ways. It's, it's a, it's a love story about the sport, but also about being in nature. And I think the way that even you know, your interview with, with Michael, from, Otillo, I think the way that he describes, you know, essentially the race that he's been producing for the last 15 years, I think even that it's almost like he's like the high priest of, of swimrun in a way. And, and I, and I think there's so much value that people get from the sport. I think like, like you and I have spoken about Carl, I've already drunk the Kool-Aid on swimrun, but I think it's safe to say if I hadn't, I would have been drinking it while watching the movie, because it was just so captivating and such a great way to feature the sport and feature the world championship that yeah, just, just speaking for myself and I think I can speak for Chipper.

CN (34:53):

We both really loved it.

CE (34:56):

Oh, thank you. Thank you. That warms my heart. And also to spread the word about swimrun, because that's accessible to many and just go out there and try it. That's one of the main things here really, to go out and do it yourself.

CD (35:11):

Yeah. Well, Carl, thank you so much, for taking the time to chat with us and tell us about the film. We're very excited for, to mirror for going to check it out. Yeah. We'll make sure we link all the information, in the show notes. So thank you so much, for being on with us, and best of luck with the remaining film festival entries.

CE (35:32):

Oh, thank you. The pleasure is mine to be on your fantastic show here.